You O.K. I’m speaking today again with Dr Peter Wadhams Can I say my good friend, Dr Wadhams Good friend Peter and who is in Ancona, Italy a country? That is on lockdown, correct? Yes, actually I’m in Fermo, which is a small town near Ancona. Aah. But it’s certainly the case that we’re on lock-downout and in fact under curfew. Is the town locked down, the country locked down? Is everything locked down?The entire country is locked down? it’s the most drastic that there’s ever been anywhere. So….. you can’t…. from 6 p.m. till 6 a.m. you can’t be out in the streets at all. This is the entire country of Italy. And, um, during the day all you can go out to do is to buy food or go to the pharmacy for medicine , and, and that’s it. You can’t even go to church. There’s ————– It’s a drastic lockdown of the whole country, I mean, in fact it is what Wuhan did. And as a result the Chinese outbreak was controlled and it seems to be controlling the Italian outbreak but no other country is doing it. Every other country in Europe is absolutely lax; the worst of all being Britain. Let me let me interject though. I have a friend, a very close friend who grew up in Shanghai and now lives in in America, and she told me if the Chinese government is reporting 8000 deaths you can easily add one or two zeros on it & not be far off from the truth because the Chinese government pathologically lies about things like that. And I was told some horrific details about how brutal the the lockdown has been in in the Wuhan area. I went into that in one of the earlier conversations today, but I won’t go into it again. So, I don’t think the Chinese description of the rapid drop-off is necessarily true. I don’t know if they’ve controlled it in Wuhan. I don’t know what they’re scheming is about but Italy I would trust to give a bit better statistics – a bit more accurate statistics – very much more accurate statistics, or at least something I trust much more. Iran I’m told also is lying; that they have mass graves. I don’t know. Yes. No, they’ve been photographed from the air. Well, I think Italy can be trusted and especially because they the the outbreak – the worst of the outbreak happened in the north of Italy which is the part with the best health care system and the most advanced economy, so to speak, and In the south of Italy is sort of a bit backward. So I think we can really trust the Italian statistics and they’re giving out absolute transparency with data. So if we need a case-study of how, how what happens if you do particular things, then I think that Italy provides the best model. Hmm, uh, good . Now we won’t talk much about the United States. I’ve already gotten my fill of ranting about the current Trump administration and how —— the pathological lies that go on. So let’s —- let me not launch into the United States……But there are probably many , many times as many infections as as are being reported because there aren’t any test kits. Yes, —- that’s the case & It’s a sort of typical Trump approach that —— if you don’t test for it ——– , you can pretend it’s not there. Yeah, so extraordinary. Extraordinarily stupid and short-sighted but typical. Well, it permits him to lie with impunity because nobody knows. Again I, —–you’re welcome to discuss Trump, but I get nauseous every day. Well, it’s exactly the same with Boris Johnson. Hh’s Britain’s mini Trump/ Britain’s lesser Trump replica. Yeah, yeah. And I —–in one of the earlier conversations today I heard some of the horrific Insanity that he said they’re going to go to control it by herd……….(immunity) Something where if you, —-if he lets the country—– half of the country get sick then they will get immunity in that half and the virus will whatever. it sounded insane. So…. It is literally insane But what he’s doing is taking the advice of a literally insane civil servant Sir Patrick Valance who’s one of these kind of moronic civil servants who looks looks at the small print but doesn’t— has no regard for human beings. So he’s he’s the origin of this theory that you you don’t take any precautions; you let everybody catch the virus – and then 95% of them will be cured and so having been cured then they’ll have immunity. And/ but of course those 5% are going to be dead and…. So that’s the first thing. And 5% percent of a population of 60,000,000 is 3,000,000. So he’s blandly expecting and planning that there will be 3,000,000 dead people in Britain which I think is going to —-would cause complete and utter mayhem. And everybody else Is following, well, should be following the Italian model which is very tough. And that’s why Britain doesn’t do it , because Johnson doesn’t take tough decisions. But the tough thing that , that Conte has done in Italy is to close everything down – a—— because, the only way to reduce the infection rate is Isolation—— social distancing —-which is, you know —— Everybody stays indoors – stays at home -keeps away from other people. So that does mean closing down ALL social functions, ALL gatherings – –most activity. Closing really everything and everybody stays indoors until the infection rate goes right down. And It’s worked for South Korea. iI’s working (starting to work) for Italy. Infection rates —- that’s the rate of growth of new cases in Italy is.down to 14% per day, which is bad enough. But the rate in Britain is 30% per day . And the rate in in most countries that haven’t taken any precautions is 30% a day. Now, you know Britain is,/can be bland and can be complacent as they always are. But if they can say, oh well, look Italy’s got 17 thousand cases and we’ve only got 700. So wow! We’re ahead of the game.! And so we don’t have to take such extreme precautions. But in fact they have to. They have to take just as extreme precautions to avoid getting to the point where they’ve got 17,000 cases. We’re talking about exponential growth and you can’t print ranks in terms of 7 versus 17 as being significantly different if you have a doubling rate that’s measured in days or weeks. So, exactly . It’s days and that’s everything is—– I think the failure is the complete failure of most people to understand the exponential function. Certainly the failure of BorisJohnson who went went to Eton and therefore didn’t learn any Maths! And doesn’t understand Maths. And also, he’s a moral coward anyway,. And he preferred to do nothing about anything, But — one the main problems is this innumeracy in Britain. This civil servant doesn’t understand the maths of the exponential distribution. He’s blandly condemning Britain to mass deaths . So that means he’s more of a killer than ——– Adolf Eichmann or something? He’s deliberately killing 3,000,000 people in Britain by that policy . And, um, It’s— if seen from the outside you realize the country is utterly going over a cliff. And of course the British are too supine and too stupid to see it. They’re not seeing what’s happening. They’re not seeing that unless action is taken urgently and instantly—-then you get massive death rates. The only way to stop it is to take the most urgent action instantly. And we’ve already — Britain’s already delayed too far too long. And even if they they take absolute lock down now —it’s too late. And there’s a flaw on top of all of that — There’s a flaw in the logic – because there’s a presumption that once you quote-unquote ” are infected and live through that that it won’t reoccur.” And apparently you CAN get a reoccurrence. That is: Youucan get it, get cured of it and it can reoccur. There’s already been cases of that where it pops up again. And for a second flaw in the logic it presumes that the novel Covid 19 coronavirus will not mutate into another strain——- — to which you don’t have immunity. Yes, well, another strain which could be even worse if that’s possible. Yeah, it’s a really a very very frightening prospect & —– well ——— I went back to England last week, just for for a couple of days because I had a meeting in London and the complacency was staggering! Everybody was just leading their normal lives. There was no medical inspection or anything at Stansted Airport. You just came in. Everybody was doing their thing. Even today, even yesterday, I get messages from Cambridge University saying “Oh, We’ve invited this professor from France to come and give a lecture and it would be wonderful if we had as big an audience as possible to show how much we appreciate him Absolute lunacy, and so I you know, I wrote to this guy saying “No, It’s the opposite.” And I wrote to the vice-chancellor saying , “Look you’re giving out totally bogus advice here.” But there was no answer. And what— their view is=they reluctantly follow where the government leads. And the government isn’t leading . So that there’s no move to prevent gatherings or —– even – you know -the sort of gatherings that should be prevented are ALL gatherings. I mean, they’ve talked about sort of abandoning football matches, but it’s far ,far more than that. It’s, you know, EVERY – EVERY TIME that ANYNUMBER. of people gather. Oh my God! You mean I can’t go down to the local pub for a pint?! Well exactly — That’s the sort of thing that, you know, that —-the English don’t accept – that there’s a crisis and — as a result, they’re going to suffer enormous numbers of deaths and looking on from the outside, where from a country like Italy which has locked down completely, you feel—— just –you—- Terrified — Terribly sad and angry that Britain can be so stupid when in fact you think of it —- I’ve always thought of it as a fairly intelligent country, but of course that’s not the case anymore —-with Brexit. It’s shown that it’s in fact a very stupid country, but this is worse than Brexit. Brexit will just involve economic collapse – –and through stupidity. But this involves mass deaths through stupidity. It occurred to me while you were talking about Boris Johnson’s cowardice and stupidity that there may have been some calculation or miscalculation? Let’s say that It would be cheaper economically, cheaper to do nothing than to mobilise and spend a whole lot of money on test kits and and and hospitals in health care and I don’t know. it’s, it basically is insane. So yeah, it could be the economic argument because this lockdown in Italy has virtually brought the country to a halt. So there’s massive costs involved there — which/ in fact the EU is giving Italy a whole load of money because Italy’s the worst case country in Europe & we’ve been bailed out by the European Union. But of course Britain can’t be bailed out by the EU because it’s chopped away from the EU. Let me touch on that point of Economics which I-you know, my thing, is that the stupidity of the human race and our hubris about Climate Change / about the damage to the ecosystems of Earth/ about —the offense against Nature / our assault on Nature Ccn be traced back to a single word—- MONEY— that we make decisions that are from a defective economic system- Growth Economics / Neoclassical Growth Economics, which at the axiomatic level has 2 modes: either Exponential Growth – by Interest Rates . Anything that grows as a percentage of itself is exponential and so it has to grow or it has to collapse. And in order to avoid collapse such as in the 2008-2009 meltdown and all other meltdowns, the way the Central Banks —the only tool that they can think of– is to throw more money out there to try to create liquidity and restart to pull the cord and try to restart growth. And it’s insane because the growth then takes more if it succeeds It’s even faster. There’s more money out there buying up more goods, encouraging more despoiling of Nature – more use of/ wasteful use of resources and the filling of our waste sinks/ the Carbon Sink in the Atmosphere which creates Climate Change/ the Sinks in the Ocean when you dump your heavy metals into the Ocean and it gets concentrated in the the pelagic—the Tuna fish and the Marlin and the big fish the top of the food chain. We are committing Ecocide and committing Suicide because we have this stupid, stupid economic system that believes you have to grow forever—- forever at an exponential rate! And the prime beneficiaries are the wealthy— the banks and the wealthy elites! So when I think about it and talk about it, I just want to tear my hair out – but — Well, it’s certainly the case that the wealthy elites can escape things like this. it’s a bit like “The Decameron” where the wealthy people went and lived on mountaintops and told each other stories while the Plague was what’s going on. Nothing much has changed in a thousand years!!! It’s said wealthy people accept that if the economy collapses—- I mean, they can escape the virus by going into their their bunkers & their mountaintop chalets and castles or wherever. But if the economy collapses then their money is not worth anything and—- Yeah, you know And what are you going to do with gold bars? How are you gonna spend them? You know, it would comes down to —You can’t eat money in any form. You can’t eat money! So it is It’s the— the hugest defective thinking that I can imagine! I did -,in one of my programs at the Climate Talks I did in Madrid – where we we just attended in December—- the very first one I did. I said basically that the wealthy think that they’re going to escape either into bunkers or — to Mars or into Colonies in Outer Space. And if you look at — Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson – they’re all talking about different forms of getting off the Earth. And if you put all 3 together – One wants to develop colonies floating in in artificial cities in outer space and one wants to land on Mars and I think was Elon Musk who said there’s a 70% chance that he will be living on Mars during this lifetime . And Richard Branson who wants to provide the the shuttles to get up and back and forth. iI’s like Duh-!!!!!!!!–!!!!! But to think that you are living on Mars!—- if you want to live on Mars— Then go to the Sahara Desert and try setting up shop for a while,. You know? Well –this case of Can You Escape ? Uou can’t! I think as you mentioned in an earlier talk.. Yeah. if you’re super rich you have to have servants to do everything for you and the servants can carry the virus. Like the passengers on these cruise ships the —- Each passenger will be isolated and in his cabin. But he ‘ll still be waited on hand and foot by the crew and the crew will be, well, are always are poverty-stricken Filipinos paid almost nothing —- herded together in in sort of 6 persons to a cabin down below and with no protection at all. And they do all the cleaning and all the cooking. and so that the virus is spread by the crew and—– Because the crew are the slaves and servants of the passengers. But the passengers don’t escape it because they catch it then from the crew. So—— it’s —- A cruise ship is a kind of a small————– exploding petri dish. ——– It’s / Yes. It”s the Capitalist System in miniature! We have two cruise ships in Honolulu not being allowed to to dock and disembark. We don’t have the medical facilities to take care of all of the infections and all of the infected passengers. They’re not publishing any numbers. I don’t think they’ve sent anybody on board to do testers. Again. The United States is just….. Zero tests, by the way, I will rant about Trump to the extent that a friend who’s in the intelligence community told me that last year Trump basically fired the top levels of the chain of command of the pandemic response team. Yes, so—- He definitely did . He was asked about at a press conference and his response was, ” I don’t know anything about that.” Well, it’s possible, he doesn’t, cause having done it he probably then forgot that and went on to something else ‘cuz he wants somebody else he wanted to attack on Twitter, but it’s—-it’s typical of him. I mean that / because they’re doing a useful and important job & II think because those organizations were set up by Obama—- therefore they had to be destroyed on principle. Yes any anything that Obama touched—- I mean the man is like the the arctypical vengeful—er— I can’t think of a person in history who compares! Somebody who Tties to undo everything that his predecessor has done——- Doesn’t think is good, huh?!! It’s like a mafia feud where where you try to wipe out all the members of the victim’s family/ Tte family of the of your opponent as well as the opponent himself. Yeah. Yeah, but I don’t know what to say. We live in a very very strange time and again I pin the blame for Trump’s election on money because we have managed for the sake of money to create a political situation in the United States where the, the, let’s say the Republican Right is composed of (grossly speaking ) the wealthy people who are corrupt and scheming and lying – Cheating their way into power. And the lowest levels of intelligence where they’ll will believe anything. You know – the masses who you can fool with any good phrase like “Make America great again. ” excuse me. —-Make America great again?! Anyhow Or in the case of Brexit, “Let’s take control, let”s stop these Europeans from telling us what to do.” Okay enough with the the political rant! I don’t want to get more and more divisive in the United States, but that’s that’s the way it’s going.